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9/11 Truthers Are Not Holocaust Deniers

6 November 2008 Comments Written by: Andrew S.
These protesters want an investigation of a 9/...

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I don’t understand the obsession that the debunkers have with trying to associate those who believe 9/11 was an inside job with those who deny the holocaust happened. I think this is done as a personal attack, designed to cut off any dialogue (or at least ensure that it descends into a flame war).

I also don’t understand why I personally have to prove that I don’t deny the holocaust happened.

Firstly, this is trying to disprove a negative. There’s a reason for the 5th Amendment in our legal system.

Secondly, those who denied the Holocaust (an official act of the German government carried out against the people of the country) overlooked the potential for their own government to do evil. I say “their own government” because most of these people were Germans that lived through the Nazi regime and didn’t catch on that something was awry. Those who don’t believe the official story of what happened on 9/11 don’t trust their government and do believe the government is capable of lying to them. Why is thinking a government could lie such a bad thing? They always have and they always will.

Alfred Hitchcock, head-and-shoulders portrait,...

Hitchcock via Wikipedia

Thirdly, I’ve never met a single truther that actually denied the Holocaust. Maybe some exist, but I haven’t found running any of the thousands of websites I’ve personally visited in trying to develop my own understanding of the events that took place on 9/11. This is clearly just a tactic to shut people up and discourage them from speaking out. Most truthers I’ve met are compassionate, level-headed and intelligent people that can speak calmly one-on-one with others while they share their ideas. Debunkers, on the other hand, are a different bunch indeed. They attack us on our intellect, mental health, qualifications, affiliations or anything else just to tear us down.

Finally, I guess this will be the closest I’ll be able to get to proving to all of the debunkers that we aren’t Holocaust deniers. I actually found this unfinished Alfred Hitchcock documentary the other day while Stumbling (StumbleUpon) through videos. The footage is really incredible and shocking, so please don’t watch unless you are prepared to handle death, nudity, forced labor, starvation and the like. This is definitely NOT WORK SAFE. Please watch this documentary reverently and let your comments be respectful of their deaths. Also, don’t forget the hundreds of millions of other people that died at the hands of their own government in the 20th Century alone.

Again, please be respectful with your comments.

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Viewing 29 Comments

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    Do I believe the Holocaust was fake? Well, I believe the worst holocaust (death by fire and radiation) happened in Japan at the hands of the Americans. People were evaporated in mid-air, turned to shadows on the sidewalk. There was another holocaust in Dresden - firebombing civilians in their homes counts as a fiery death, too. This is terrorism - killing civilians. Many jews died in the labor camps, too, but more toward the end of the war, when, sadly, supply lines were cut off by bombing, and food rations did not make it to the camps. Typhus spread (via lice), and devastated already malnourished people. The corpses shown in pictures did not die of gassing. Why delouse someone whom you're planning to gas? Why provide swimming pools, theatres, bordellos, and why issue currency to those you're going to extinguish? Why tattoo their arms? Why shave their heads? These were work camps making munitions for the war.

    All the death camps in Germany were revised officially has being work camps. So now (officially) all the death camps were supposedly in Poland - conveniently off limits to inspection until after the fall of the iron curtain. All the so-called evidence for the gassing comes from tortured confessions and biased eye-witnesses. Many of the eye-witness claims have since been proved false (e.g., human soap, lampshades). There are no ash-heaps, no gas chambers, only buildings for delousing. It would take properly built gas-chambers to kill people - the cyclon-B supposedly used is not fast-acting and would have (if deadly) killed the workers supposedly pulling corpses out of the ovens. And those corpses would had to be buried or, even if burned, their ashes disposed of. And where could the bodies be burned? In open pits? Not possible. Too much oxygen and bodies wouldn't burn piled on top of each other. And there were fuel shortages, so why would the Nazis use fuel needed for the factories to burn humans?

    Google "David Cole interviews Dr. Franciszek Piper" - often the video has been pulled, but text or a torrent will still be available. There's no evidence of ashes or even any disturbance of the ground at Treblinka (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCwpjsS-6H4). Auschwitz officially revised downward their death toll from 4 million to 1.5 million, still everyone talks about the 6 million.

    The number of jews who died is estimated to be closer to 700 thousand -- still a horribly high number. Why did it have to be artificially inflated? To help the cause of Israel? Perhaps. Curiously, the number of Jews in all of what was eventually Hitler-controlled territory did not even add up to 4 million, let alone 6.

    The fact that anyone (political prisoners of any persuasion, communists, gays, gypsies, poles, etc.) died is wrong. Hitler was wrong to take territory. He was a slimey bastard. But inflating numbers is bad history. Truth is the cornerstone of democracy and freedom.

    So yes, there was a holocaust. But a specifically Jewish Holocaust? No. Even more german soldiers were starved in camps _after_ the war by General Eisenhower. That's a war crime right there. The Allied powers and the Soviets had lots of crimes to cover up; blaming the Germans helped create a smoke-screen. The victors write history, ne c'est pas? And the Germans were so anal - they kept records of everything - why wouldn't they have kept records of some master plan to rid the world of Jews? The Catholic Church was silent on the Holocaust because there was none - no organized plan to kill Jews.

    I'm Alyve (for now).

    p.s. I believe that PD is in love with AS. It is so obvious, PD hangs on every word, every post, every nuance of AS.
    p.p.s. I don't know a lot about 9/11 truth - I'll have to look into it. Here is an interesting post that popped up today all around the internet ("How 9/11 was done"):
    http://www.how911wasdone.blogspot.com/
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    This is getting absolutely ridiculous. Andrew is absolutely not denying the Holocaust. But it seems that many of those commenting here wish he were so that they would have more fuel.

    I don't always agree with Andrew, but I feel that this article was a clear effort to let you know that he is not in with the league of Holocause deniers.

    If someone criticizes someone who happens to be Jewish, it doesn't mean that they hate Jews. If someone criticizes Condoleeza Rice, Barack Obama, or Colin Powell, it doesn't mean they hate blacks. I could go on here, but it seems that people on this post and others and just trying to make Andrew out to be some kind of bigot to make themselves feel better.

    Are there other so-called conspiracy theorists out there who believe that 9/11 was an inside job and that the Holocaust didn't happen? I don't doubt it. In fact, while browsing the Infowars forum, you are likely to see some people spewing out some Zionist stuff or other stuff that Alex Jones has never even acknowledged as remotely true.

    I think that that danger with figuring out governments or other entities in society are really malicious is that you become more likely to latch on to other theories which may be flat out nonsense. Once the mind becomes open to evidence of one conspiracy, it's likely that the individual's world view will change.
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    Using an obscure and undocumented site to attack the credibility of a site that is neither obscure nor undocumented doesn't help your argument very much

    Goblin people? Right. You must have been watching one of those tightly-edited, out of context clips. Do you really think that Senators, Congressmen, Members of the Japanese Diet, Celebrities, CIA Chiefs and former members of the intelligence community would really go on a show like that?
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    way to go with the off-topic comment - that's the banner those people were holding but it doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion
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    1. I never said that you were a Holocaust denier.

    2. I'm willing to concede that not all 911 truthers are Holocaust deniers.

    3. I have much better arguments than accusing all truthers of being Holocaust deniers.

    4. I'm not trying to cut off dialogue.

    5. I never asked you to prove that you're not a Holocaust denier.

    6. On "Thirdly, I’ve never met a single truther that actually denied the Holocaust" -

    Apparently you're a holocaust denial denier. By way of example, Eric Hufschmid and Christopher Bollyn have been big players in the 911 truth movement (although their influence is a bit less nowadays, as Alex Jones has taken the spotlight). It is even the case that, on the original thread to this topic, Martin Timothy cited Christopher Bollyn. Here's a bit about that nutcase: http://911review.com/denial/holocaust.html
    This is also informative on Bollyn and anti-Semitism among 911 deniers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB6nDk_FEBs

    Also, I talked to that nutjob who holds cardboard signs up on Monroe Avenue (definitely truther horseshit, with some Alex Jones crap thrown in). I asked him about the Holocaust. He's certainly in denial.

    7. On "Most truthers I’ve met are compassionate, level-headed and intelligent people that can speak calmly one-on-one with others while they share their ideas." -

    Yeah, unless you challenge them in some minor way on their bullshit. They instantly believe that you're part of the conspiracy, and that has consequences. As an example, I got stalked by a bag lady.

    8. On "They attack us on our intellect, mental health, qualifications, affiliations or anything else just to tear us down" -

    We also attack you on every single factual claim and every single attempt at analysis.

    9. On "Again, please be respectful with your comments" -

    Really? You claim that the Jews did 911, and perhaps that the FDNY was in on it as well, and you demand respect?

    If you really want the truth, in addition to the "thousands" of unsourced conspiracy sites that you visit, you won't be afraid to visit the debunker sites, where EVERY SINGLE CLAIM that you truthers make is debunked. But I don't imagine that you'll do so.
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    You are so intellectually dishonest to say: "You claim that the Jews did 911, and perhaps that the FDNY was in on it as well, and you demand respect?"

    I don't know where you come up with this but you seem to be continually projecting others' beliefs onto me.
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    Andrew, you seemed to write in the previously thread that the Israelis definitely had foreknowledge of 911. That's bullshit, of course, or, at least, 7 years later, there's no proof. I don't think you quite understand that, even if you don't have the disease of anti-Semitism, you're being manipulated by those who do.

    As to the FDNY, you're right, you haven't explicitly blamed the FDNY (as some truthers have), the FDNY would NECESSARILY HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED in the conspiracy (including the bullshit about blowing up WTC 7). I don't think you've thought this out, Andrew. At least the truthers who claim the FDNY was behind the conspiracy are intellectually consistent - they're horrible people, of course.

    Andrew, you've teamed up with a bunch of uneducated losers. Every stupid WTC 7 claim has been debunked. It's your choice.
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    Andrew,

    there are many of your articles that contain (in my opinion) unsubstantiated claims. Why are you so defensive if people post unsubstantiated claims about you? If you can't substantiate in an academic way the claims you're trying to make, how can you expect other people to do the same for you?
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    This is a problem I've had with your site from the beginning Andrew. It contains what I believe are a lot of unsubstantiated claims for a variety of issues. Now how can you be so offended if others make unsubstantiated comments about you and your opinions?

    Objectively, your McCain supporter arrested thread was horribly dishonest. If you want to run a legitimate site, you should set the example by not posting unsubstantiated claims.
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    What ever happened to the naked lens? You were free to interpret what happened in that scene freely and you did. It was not tightly edited to make the McCain supporter look good or the Obama supporters look bad. It wasn't even constructed to make the police look bad. Their actions speak for themselves and you decided to interpret their actions differently than I did. I don't really see any dishonesty there. If you want to see a dishonest blog, head over to one of Michelle Malkin's blogs (so-called pajamas media) and look at their claims. They claimed the video of the puppy that a Marine threw off the cliff was faked. It was not. It was later admitted by the Marines to be real. She hasn't retracted her statements.

    Also, search take a look at Mike Reagan's talk show:

    http://riseuprochester.org/2008/06/21/so-whats-...

    http://riseuprochester.org/2008/06/21/mike-reag...

    Take a look at what he's gotten away with. It might open your eyes a bit.
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    Holocaust deniers are not saying that the Nazi's didn't do bad things to the Jewish people, but it didn't happen like it is written and presented, the claim that 6 million Jews were exterminated has been disputed and since governments are presenting the story, you have to wonder. After watching the history channel and searching on the web, my conclusion is that the Zionist put Hitler which was a Jew into power to bring about the state of Israel through this Holocaust. The name Holocaust & the amount 6 it self is significant, where as many other races of people that died in the millions were insignificant.
    As for 9/11 I don't think the government had anything to do with it and I don't think you can compare it to WWII.
    What happen to the Jewish people during WWII was evil weather the number was 6 million or 1, because humans don't deserve to be persecuted in such a manner, not even the people of Palestine, Africa, Mexico, Asia and all the other places
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    So you're not a Holocaust denier? You just believe Jews traded 6 million (and you even deny this number) for a shot at their own country?

    Awful.

    Just awful.
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    Well there you go - another silly goose who believes unsourced claims on the Internet.

    Did the History Channel actually run with the Zionist angle as the cause of the Holocaust?

    The Holocaust was so unbelievably documented.

    Here's some good reading on the beginning of the Holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

    And yes, I know it's an Internet site, but (1) it's well-sourced, and you can go to the additional sources that such sources cite and (2) if you don't believe in the facts, you can present evidence to wikipedia that the facts are wrong.
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    I was trying to be polite with my point of view however not to be ugly but some of you some of you wish to be childish and not accept the fact or should I say just the facts you wish to believe, I'm sure you same people believe God created us and the Jewish are the chosen people.

    Go hear my idol Huey P Long it will relax you
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/top100speechesa...
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    As an atheist I wholeheartedly agree with Paul and Common Sense's comments, nothing really to add here.

    Anyway, that speech has no reference to the holocaust, so why bring it up? If you can post any evidence to your belief that the holocaust was created in order to create a Jewish state, please reference it.
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    I think this comment proves my point beautifully. "John" questions the story of the Holocaust but doesn't believe 9/11 was an inside job.
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    No, your point seemed to evolve into 911 truthers not being holocaust deniers. Surely there are holocaust deniers that are not truthers, and truthers that are not holocaust deniers, but it's somewhat silly to think that, after reading thousands of truther websites (apparently without having the courage to confront responses to truther claims), you've all but concluded that no truther is also a holocaust denier.
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