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Wire Tap Bill: Reactions

11 July 2008 Comments Written by: Alicia O.

Many of us in the United States have become swept up by the hope for change and an end to Bush’s tyranny brought about by the upcoming presidential election. But what is really behind the decisions of politicians to trample on American liberties? Well, there’s a lot posturing, rhetoric, symbolism, weakness, failure to stand up, failure to lose the approval of certain constituents.

Local politician Willie Lightfoot once said that we as voters must pay attention to two things: what is on the candidates’ agenda as well as their voting record. If a candidate mentions nothing about changing US foreign policy but says he wants troops out of Iraq, there is something to be said for that. Likewise, if a candidate wants us out of Iraq but has a voting record that supports the war up until now, we should beware. I know that Emerson warned us of “foolish consistency” and I do think people have the right to change their minds given new information, but it works a little differently in congress where pragmatism and principle have to mix.

There is no doubt that the recent wiretap bill, pushed through by congress was a victory for a surveillance nation and a defeat of our civil liberties. What I am interested in now, however, are the reactions and proposals to get this bill out. Some recent letters to the NY Times are helpful, because they show some Americans really do have their heads on straight and are not duped into believing that this wire tap bill makes us safer.

Why is the wire tap bill a crock? Here are the words of ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero from his letter to the Times:

The existing Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act already allowed the government to engage in necessary surveillance, and was a civil liberties compromise wrought by Mr. Halperin and others in 1978. The FISA Amendments Act, however, is no compromise; it’s sheer capitulation based on political cynicism.

The F.A.A. emasculates the judiciary, allowing the government to apply for wiretaps after beginning surveillance and continue monitoring Americans’ phone calls and e-mail messages if the FISA court rejects the application.

We also take little comfort that Americans targeted for surveillance overseas will have better protection than the 300 million in the United States who will be subject to warrantless dragnets.

Unwilling to let this wrongheaded and unconstitutional law go unchallenged, the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit asking that its enforcement be blocked.

Don’t you get it? This wire tap bill was unnecessary–the government already had the power to search anyone suspected of a crime…this just took it one unnecessary step further.

Theyre listenin

They're listenin'

Part Two: One of the reasons why the chances of me supporting Barack Obama are less today…

He supported the bill. Read this response from a Times reader and former Obama supporter:

To the Editor:

As a repeat donor to the Obama campaign, I was bitterly disappointed in Senator Barack Obama’s “yes” vote on FISA on Wednesday. Several times during the campaign, Mr. Obama swore that he would fight against, and filibuster, any bill that provided retroactive immunity for FISA violations. On Wednesday, he voted to pass just such a bill.

Although Mr. Obama has shown many heterodox positions, this is completely different. With this bill, he broke his promise, for the sake of capitulating to the Bush-Cheney administration and gutting the Constitution. This betrayal by Mr. Obama is as baffling as it is inexcusable. He has lost my support.

Bryan Erickson

Eagan, Minn., July 10, 2008

What do you think?

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Viewing 14 Comments

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    Interview Request

    Hello Dear and Respected,
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    regards.

    Ghazala Khan
    The Pakistani Spectator
    http://www.pakspectator.com
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    Great article, Alicia. Yeah it's only natural to be upset at Obama for what he has done here. It shows his true colors and we must call him out for this. Just Google 'Obama FISA betrayal" and you'll see plenty of other stories about this issue. If a candidate is eroding your freedoms before they are even president, how can they be trusted to protect them once they are president?
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    What I think is we are holding the cop more responsible for the crime than the criminal. Why this bill was moved through is beyond me, but it was the Bush Admin that performed the crime, not Obama, so why is he being held more accountable for it than Bush & Co.?

    To be honest, what can 1 of 535 do to stop this? Had he fillibustered this, Bush would be all over him saying he is weak on Terrorism and as we saw with Bush praising McCain on the GIBill, although he is not popular, he has an enormous sway over those people who are not news junkies from his bully pulpit.

    Yes Obama said he would fillibuster it, but some like yourself seem to selectively remember what Obama ran on and have mistaken invented what is message was. Obama has never run on a far Left platform or called himself a Liberal, however others have labeled him as one. He ran as someone who wants to bring everyone together and even though I am far Left, I picked up on that message from the very beginning and that is what drew me in.

    Far Left people it appears seem to be in their frustration with Bush, which I am as well, appear to be blinded by anything "not Bush", however if they want another 4 years of frustration, they better open their eyes and recognize Obama is not a Liberal and never labeled himself as one.

    Democrats, who always eat their young, better wake up!
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    Hans, I disagree. Not everyone who makes international calls is a criminal. If the government thought a crime was being committed and present probable cause then they would be able to obtain the necessary warrants. Protecting our freedoms does not put us in danger of being attacked by terrorists. What this does is allow the government to monitor without limit all communications that travel internationally. Keep in mind, this internet communication we are having MAY be traveling through a router in Canada or somewhere else.

    Also, since when does your inability to change the result of a particular vote excuse you from voting incorrectly? Are you serious?
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    Let them wiretap because they have great dataminers, but not enough people to go through it all, so I hope this gets swept up as well to bogg them down further. I would add a "F*** Bush" just to make sure, but don't want to offend anyone ;)

    I'm not concerned about this to make us safer, I just don't think throwing Obama in the fire at this time is worth the risk of getting McCain as President. He was one of 535 members of Congress, so he had no real power to change the vote and what I was saying about the cop/criminal was not about you or me, but rather Bush is the criminal, why are we holding Obama to a higher degree of responsibility for the actions of Bush.

    Sow discontent, vote for Nader or Barr, but don't be pissed when McCain becomes President and things get worse than they already are.
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    I really appreciate all the comments Hans--that's what we hope to have on our blog.

    Okay...so I think many of the opinions you have represent a prevailing misconception about what makes a good president: people focus on how "electable" the candidate is (their charisma and what they say they will do rather than actions). What is wrong with America is that we are led to believe we can only choose between McCain and Obama...this should not be how it works. Neither or candidate represent how most Americans feel about major issues. The media decided early on who its ponies would be and controlled what information got out about the candidates. One poll says, based on issues alone, most people have views that align quite a bit with Ron Paul. Unfortunately, he is no longer in the race, but what he did in this election should remind us in the upcoming votes that we must always do what's right--i.e. follow the constitution.

    Just because Obama had to seem like he wasn't "weak on terrorism" is not an excuse to take away our rights.

    The only reason that we are putting Obama on blast like this is because he is the democratic nominee. He is an important representative at this time. I think what I really wanted to show here is that this is a sign of more dangerous legislation passing through under the Obama administration.

    I hate McCain, but I don't really know how I feel about Obama anymore. I don't even know where I am on the political spectrum anymore. I don't want to engage in this false left-right paradigm.
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    What has happened to our country? Honestly? The federal reserves robbing americans blind. The government passing wiretaps when they helped set up those very terrorist figures in the first place!!! What's up with that? Yet no one will say that except Immortal Technique and wearechange.org, prison planet, and Alex Jones. Why are we such wimps? Also to Hans why not offend anyone? To disturb the masses is to affect change with resilience and passion. You need to disturb people with information and you need to shock them! If you do not you will continue to be a sheep and be slaughtered by your own ignorance. I love this line by the band called the Counting Crows that you should never ever forget about this dire situation that we are facing. Here it is:

    "Around here we talk just like lions but we sacrifice like lambs."

    This is what we do as American citizens. We complain about high taxes and we complain about debt but we never truly sacrifice ourselves for the issues that truly matter like our constitutional rights. Why? It's because it really hurts to do that non stop because then you end up sacrificing like a martyr instead of a lamb. I take a look around and everyone just seems to be believing all of this crap that our government speaks or not truly going against it. A new world order is upon us and it was even stated on our money. Scary stuff but who will come against that? Who will fight the good fight to bring our constitution back? The answer is us. Not the government because the government can't do it all by themselves.
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    Also the government wants to rule and scare you into believing that you are not as powerful as they are which is not true at all. If you are divinity then that is far from the truth. Be the light in this World. Spit that hard stuff and make it known where you stand as much as you can. Don't let our country turn into HBO's the Wire. That's not right but we have already allowed that to happen. It's too bad that enough people care and then we wonder why we fall down. The we wonder as a country what has happened? A lot of the blame falls on us too. I look to kids like Luke Rudowski for inspiration because he sacrifices like a martyr and not a lamb. This is because "one man with courage makes a majority" as Andrew Jackson once stated.
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    that not enough people care*
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    *then we wonder as country
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    Don't get me wrong, I am not about giving up our rights nor am I blind to what is happening, but I do have to tempter my anger to gain (or more importantly lose less) overall. If I rise, incite riot and anger in middle of the road Americans (those that are not news junkies) then they go vote for McCain based on his "Maverick" label & military experience and I cannot allow that to happen as I've suffered enough mentally over the past 7.5 years. I can't take another 4 years of this BS, this country cannot take another 4 years as there will no longer be a viable economy existing in this country.

    If you have not yet, you should read John Dean's Conservatives without Conscious and put this together with typical "conservative" mantra of subservience & sheep-like action.

    I'll give you an example (and I've always hated the Counting Crows which is not important ;) )...

    there are two "climbers" representing the left and the right. the Left person is climbing an ice slope while the person on the Right is climbing a sand dune. They are both tethered together. The both expend an enormous amount of energy to get to the top, however the climber on the left will always slide back slightly more than they move up, while the person on the sand dune will always gain a small amount as they slide back less than they gain. It is how it has always worked and it is how it continues to work today.

    why this happens is because the left has more critical "thinkers" that fragment into groups which want slightly different things with a general overall same plan, while those on the right have a large block that are not critical "thinkers" and often take "orders" and do whatever that is without question, so overall they through unquestioning unity gain, while those on the left through slight infighting lose.

    so if I grill Obama on this, although I may not be happy about it, overall if it fragments the left & the unity they are trying to gain with moderates & true fiscal conservatives (read:Ron Paul types) then myself and everyone else that is striving towards economic responsibility will all fail when McCain gets elected.

    McCain will get no flack on his connection to Phil Gramm, his 25 year friend & economic policy adviser, who is responsible for allowing the Enron Loophole & the mortgage rules laxing that we are now falling under to (I don't excuse the people who took out loans they could not afford, but banks F***ing know better) so Obama will get chewed a new a**hole for the FISA bill which will not cost us anything, while McCain will get away scott free even though we all will be paying for it in even more debt through this socialized risk coverage for privatized profit to the corporations.

    anyways, that's about that.

    btw I'm from the farm country outside of lockport, not to many miles away from you (that is if it is rochester, ny where you are) yet moved as far west as I could from there long ago ;)
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    oh yeah, not scared at all by the government. never fell into the whole hysteria of color coded fear mongering and was actually supposed to fly out of Denver early September 11th. Although I did not predict 9-11 or Afghanistan happening, I knew in January of 01 we would be going to war with Iraq courtesy of Bush.

    Learned to look through the news to who they are sponsored/owned by back during the first Gulf War when I was 16ish, and even find it disturbing that NPR & PBS get a lot of their funding from ADM and other large argo-businesses.
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    Haha, I've never been too much of a counting crows fan either...although a couple songs grew on me.

    I understand what you are saying Hans, about unity and "anyone but McCain" but I guess I'm increasingly feeling like we're in the same situation as 2004. I wasn't really a big fan of Kerry but Bush flat out was a moron, and I could already tell it would be a bad idea to get in someone whose father was already in.

    Anyway, I just think Obama keeps going back on fundamental promises he made. He seems like an opportunist who is willing to say or do anything to get elected. Obviously many or most politicians are this way, but I suppose I'm just holding him to a higher standard (being a critical thinker and all) and according to you it is that kind of "infighting" that will lead to McCain sitting at the oval office.

    I guess I just thought Obama's movement was this grass roots, for the people movement and it seems that it's not that anymore...

    What are we the people to do when we don't like either of the candidates?I know that's where partisanship comes in, but I think if this country is going to survive, somehow we need to transcend these political party alliances and go back to the issues; go back to the constitution.

    PS I really liked Kucinich...but alas...

    Thanks for the comments, it is great to have some dialogue around this place!!
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    I think we are far from the situation we were in back in 2004, where my vote was nothing more than party line instead of true interest in Kerry or Edwards for that matter. (don't take offense, but) it was an east coast battle played out by east coast idiots with Ohio-ians taking the prize for stupidity.

    I just hope we keep the infighting to a minimum as the Right will be in lockstep with each other and will win with McCain if we pick fights without considering the ramifications of doing so.

    I am not certain what you heard or whether you supported Obama in the primaries, I was for Richardson to begin with, but I never heard him say "he was taking us off the diving board to the far left" but rather was trying to bring EVERYONE (Left, right, middle, etc) together to work towards achieving common goals and aspirations, so I am not upset by his movement to the center (fast or slow). The more I learn about Bill Clinton, the more I find he was closer to the Right than I mistakenly believed he was far to the left.

    btw, whether i like Dennis K or not, simple reality is that a leprechaun cannot be President of the USA ;)
 

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